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Productivity Guru SMACKDOWN: Tim Ferriss v. Dave Allen

Fight Promotion

What do Steven Covey, David Allen, and Timothy Ferriss have in common?  They’re dudes.  Let’s face it, getting off on productivity is often a male thing.  Here’s another thing men like: kicking the crap out of each other.  Men have been perfecting that art longer than they’ve been tinkering with PDAs and other work fidgets. So when you think about it, combining productivity with kicking the crap out of each other makes good sense, especially since two of last year’s best selling productivity authors are also martial artists (I’m referring to Timothy Ferriss, author of The Four Hour Work Week, and David Allen, author of Getting Things Done).

Two shots of testosterone, coming up. . .

Tim Vs David
 

Allen_David_web Tim 1
STATS STATS
  • Name: David Allen
  • Inbox: Zero (finished)
  • Motto: Do it, delegate it, or defer it.
     
  • Age: 62
  • Fighting Style: Getting Things Done (GTD)
     
  • Experience: Former karate instructor.
  • Religion: Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareness
  • Strengthes: Stress-free productivity.
     
  • Weakness: GTD can be unrealistically complex.
  • Name: Timothy Ferriss
  • Inbox: Outsourced to Bangalore, India.
  • Motto: Do less of it.  Outsource it, automate it, or selectively ignore it.
  • Age: 29
  • Fighting Style: Four-Hour Work Week (4HWW)
  • Experience: Championship cage fighter.
  • Religion: Agnostic
     
  • Strengthes: Effectiveness, lifestyle design, purposeful unrealism.
  • Weaknesses: 4HWW can be unrealistic.

Pre-Fight Smack Talking

David accuses Tim of being a young ADDish hellion offering false hopes to the overworked and underpaid.  Tim claims that Getting Things Done is repurposed dungeons and dragons for the inner geeks of adult professionals.

(I’m just fictionalizing here; they’ve never implied these things).

GTD workflow.id Preparation

Timothy takes performance enhancing BodyQUICK™ pills (he owns the company) and contemplates outsourcing the fight to his powerlifting pal Scott Mendelson, or putting the job up for bid on Elance.  David reviews his advanced fight workflow chart (see image to the right) and considers "defferin’ it or delegatin’ it."  He’s having trouble maintainging Mind Like Water and tries to clear his head by creating an exhaustive to do list for the match.

Fight starts in 2 minutes.  While you’re waiting, eat some of that popcorn and check the stats again…

DingDingDing…

boxing bell

David and Tim touch gloves and then back away.  Here’s how the ensuing fight breaks down…

GTD workflow.id

Round 1: Time

Four-Hour Work Week
Timothy advocates a Four-Hour Work Week (which is the same amount of time needed to understand the GTD workflow diagram).

Getting Things Done
GTD takes at least 4 hours per week to maintain.

Verdict?
Depends on the applicability of GTD or 4HWW to your ideal life.  Someone with lots of children or other commitments probably can’t make the time investment necessary to create a four hour work week, although it has been done.

Round 2: Your Boss’s Opinion

"WARNING: DO NOT READ THIS BOOK UNLESS YOU WANT TO QUIT YOUR JOB."
-Four-Hour Work Week Dust Jacket

Four-Hour Work Week
4HWW is like kryptonite to a middle manager (or this guy).  It’s going to put crazy ideas in your head and the last thing the boss wants you doing is outsourcing your job, taking mini-retirements, spending less time at the office, killing your commute, being selectively ignorant, and asking "for forgiveness, not permission."  Your boss, however, probably does want you taking Tim’s advice on killing email addiction.  Chances are you won’t be getting a free copy of 4HWW at the company party.

I will take as a given that for … somewhere between six and seven billion [people], the perfect job is the one that takes the least time.
-Timothy Ferriss

Getting Things Done

It’s possible for a person to have an overwhelming number of things to do and still function productively.
-David Allen

Corporations line up to have Allen show their employees how to do an overwhelming number of things.  I bet your boss wants you getting more things done, which is why she’d love GTD.  (See here for David’s Fortune 500-studded client list, which includes Lockheed Martin, Deloitte & Touche, and the U.S. Department of Defense).  Entire companies have bought Getting Things Done for their employees.  Making lists, being more efficient, staying productive, writing everything down… your boss probably eats it up (and so do I, when it’s simple).  It’s no surprise that a hefty chunk of Davidco’s $6 million per year revenue comes from corporate training.

Verdict?

Reading GTD will likely motivate you at work.  4HWW might convince you to quit your job.  I’m not sure who won this round.

Round 3: Getting Everything Out of Your Head vs. Selective Ignorance

Four-Hour Work Week
Tim Ferriss advocates selective ignorance and suggests you "eliminate instead of organize,"  "create not-to-do lists," and "cancel, fire, subtract, and eliminate, eliminate, eliminate."  He also claims that "[o]ptimize" should mean removing the nonessential and minimally important until you’re left with the bare essentials."

Getting Things Done
David Allen wants you to capture "all the things that need to get done—now, later, someday, big, little, or in between—into a logical system."  He also encourages you to make "front-end decisions about all of the ‘inputs’ you let into your life so that you’ll always have a plan for ‘next actions’ that you can implement or renegotiate at any moment."  This sounds obsessive-compulsive.

ferriss.03David also suggests that you organize all your stuff.  What’s stuff, you ask? Stuff is "anything you have allowed into your psychological or physical world that doesn’t belong where it is, but for which you haven’t yet determined the desired outcome and the next action step."  Really?  Organize ALL of it?

Verdict?
I’m declaring Tim the winner of this round (check the graphic).

Round 4: Simplicity

Four-Hour Work Week
One might be able to call 4HWW unrealistic, but no one (that I know of) calls it incomprehensible.

[T]he person who…develops an elaborate system of folder rules … is efficient on some perverse level. … Doing something well does not make it important … What you do is infinitely more important than how you do it.
-Timothy Ferriss

Getting Things Done
Check that workflow diagram again (near the top of this article).  And get this, the GTD system recommends making "action choices" based on "The Four-Criteria Model for Choosing Actions in the Moment," "The Threefold Model for Evaluating Daily Work," or "The Six-Level Model for Reviewing Your Own Work." ???  !!!  Need to decide what to do next while on the job?  Simple!  Just consult the Four-Criteria Model.  And yes, these models are as digestible as they sound.

The workings of an automatic transmission are more complicated than a manual transmission.  To simplify a complex event, you need a complex system.
-David Allen

Verdict?

Tim wins.

Round 5: Main Purpose

Four-Hour Work Week
4HWW’s subtitle is "escape 9-5, live anywhere, and join the new rich."  Unrealistic?  That’s a complex question.  This guy doesn’t think it’s unrealistic, but then again he’s selling you something.  Here’s how Tim defends himself.  For most people, spending only four hours weekly on income generation is unrealistic (although not impossible), but cutting workload in half, outsourcing aspects of your personal life, spending less time at the office, and taking mini-retirements is not.

Getting Things Done
GTD’s subtitle is "The Art of Stress-Free Productivity," and the book starts out by stating that "[i]t’s possible for a person to have an overwhelming number of things to do and still function productively with a clear head and a positive sense of relaxed control."  This sounds helpful, but mostly for non-ideal situations: if you dislike your job, you’re going to need a water-tight productivity system in place to keep you motivated.

Verdict?
Depends on your priorities.  GTD is for keeping afloat when you’ve got a million things to do.  But if you’re trying to stay afloat, do you really have time to implement a a complex productivity system?  Personally, I’d rather spend my energies getting out of the situations for which GTD prepares you.

Round 6: Tim Ferriss Wins by TKO

championship beltTim Ferriss read the SMACKDOWN rules the night before and discovered a loophole.  If one fighter is pushed off the elevated combat platform three times in a single round, then his opponent wins by default.

Conclusion

OK, seriously, I’m not going to declare a winner, although I haven’t hid my biases.  What’s your preference?

Post-claimer: This is not a jab.  I have benefited from the great work of both David and Timothy and I went with the SMACKDOWN metaphor because: (1) it’s a good way to compare two very different systems, and (2) it’s fun.  It seemed slightly less soporific than an article called : "Rethinking Productivity: A Comparative Explication of Two Seemingly Antithetical Approaches to Productivity."

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Category: Four-Hour Work Week / Productivity
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  • Definitely found GTD complicated enough to understand in its entirety I give you that. I have 4HWW sitting on my desk that I'm lining up to read, but it seems people on the other side of 4HWW are living the life compared to those on the other side of GTD.
  • Risky
    What happened to my previous post? Clay - any answers?

    Anyways, Great article again Clay and excellent comments. I liked the book 'Four Hour Work Week' but haven't read GTD.

    What I took out of FHWW is:

    What exactly am I making money for?

    And I came up with this quote:-

    "Grateful are those who see life in its simplicity, whose thoughts are not diluted through pop assumptions & social norms propagated through t.v, movies and media". - Risky 2008
  • Mike
    I've read both GTD and 4HWW. my point of view on them is that they work VERY well together.

    GTD tells you how to manage your desired responsibilities, and 4HWW tells you how to minimize and/or get rid of your undesired responsibilities. this is VERY useful.

    for example, if you want to be one of the world's best at something. you will have to spend thousands of hours perfecting your craft and you have to make sure that each hour is well spent.

    Each system (you) has a point where the productivity factor (dave) and the effectivity factor (tim) achieve optimal output.
  • Risky
    I agree with all regarding "Clay, great article - good work man" I also want to thank everyone for their comments, it truly does open these type of books up and relaxes thought about do do do, why not just be. Do we have to 'Do' to just
  • Great article. I haven't read GTD yet, but the 4HWW helped me quite my job and move to a tropical island. So the quite your job part is quite accurate.
  • I've read both, starting with 4HWW. Interesting stuff, but not very realistic for most people, even me. My GTD-influenced system now really helps me stay organized. Heck, if I could get out of working I would, but it's just not as easy as Tim says.
  • Great summary of the core concepts of both books. I have to agree with the verdict too: I learned a few useful concepts from GTD, but 4HW changed the way I look at life and work.

    Very nice article.
  • Billy Gallagher
    Definitely a well written article and the timing was perfect for me as a moderate user of GTD and have just started reading 4HWW. I give credit to both for encouraging people to work smarter instead of harder. There are always new and better ways to accomplish something.

    4HWW concept on outsourcing is valid in our society. In many ways, people use this and don't realize it. Just ask yourself when was the last time you harvested your own crops, cut wood down to build your own house, or built your own computer from raw materials? We don't do this anymore because we find the time required is not worth the effort, I think Tim takes this to a whole new level that is relevant in today's society.
  • Tim
    Never really got into GTD, but I just finished reading 4HWW. And in my opinion, I prefer the 4HWW.

    Why ??? Well.... why would I want to do everything on the list ???? It just takes too much time to do everything. I jut prefer to be selective and ignore some other stuff. Works fine and I get more and more free time to hang out with my family.

    A nice change of lifestyle where I used to be doing everything and working loads and loads. Sometimes even with the idea that I loved to work crazy hours. Which I know realise was stupid. But hitting the wall one day made me think about priorities in life and some of the "guidelines" Tim Ferris writes about, I figured out already before I read the book....
  • Hi Clay,
    You did a great job highlighting both approaches. I am a fan of both David & Tim's work, bottom line is do what you love, express your core genius and outsource or delete the rest. I've done a considerable amount of eliminating unnecessary meetings, memberships, etc etc lately and I feel so FREE :)
    Great article,thanks!
  • Great post and comments, Clay!

    I have studied and worked to implement both systems and while I agree with those who recommend a blended approach, I am skeptical about how that would work in the long run.

    While I have made incremental improvements to gain greater control at work using GTD, Ferriss's approach has inspired me to make BIG, qualitative changes.

    The two big FHWW questions for me are: What would I do if I had to cut my work day by 90% or more? and If I had significantly more free time, what would I do with it? The second question has proven far more challenging than the first.

    As a result, I realize that I don't want to get "things" done, I want to focus on what's most important, productive and fun. I don't want to be ready for "anything." I want to be ready for unexpected opportunities that I would have brushed off were I dutifully working through my to-do list.
  • I have read both and agree and disagree with points in both. Parts of GTD help me keep my life in order. Parts of 4HWW help me overcome my fear of experimentation and give me inspiration for escaping the cubicle nation.

    With any "self-help" book, take what works for you and use it. Otherwise toss it to the side. There are no winners and no losers.
  • Rob
    I think both systems, as does every system, provide some useful information, but you have to remember that these systems evolved by being implemented according to those guys' personal circumstances and experiences. They weren't devised and planned out first.

    Therefore I think there is no single system that will fix everyone's situation and the information by itself is not enough.

    As with everything the secret ingredient to either getting a grip of your life or living the life of your dreams is the one that nobody can teach or tell you. It's your own application of information you aquire. Some of it will work, some won't and you will only discover what works through action.

    I believe then it is possible for any person who sets out on a path of creating their own lifestyle can provide, through sharing their experience something really valuable for others to follow, so that they find their own magic formula.

    I really liked 4HWW. It has given me some good ideas.
  • Casual Fighter
    CORRECTION: Time Ferris is NOT a "championship cage fighter". He never had any cage fights, professional OR amateur. In his book, Tim refers to "demolishing" three different cage fighting champions; however, in his blog, he explained that he was talking about friendly gym sparring sessions with those champions, not professional (or amateur) matches.
  • I use both systems GTD & 4-hour. I don't do things I don't want to and I am productive at the things I choose to. They can work mostly together. Two of my favorite books. GTD is too strict and 4 hour is too dreamy. There is a middle point where they are effective and efficient
  • A very interesting comparison thank you. Though I am a Dave fan, your way too biased!
  • I have had a chance since my earlier posts to study these authors and their ilk for some time. They have a tendency to list all their supposed accomplishments, but these accomplishments are primarily about spending the money they have earned selling their snake oil. They have not actually done anything to contribute to the betterment of society at all.

    Challenging them leads to the Ad Hoc Hypothesis. That is, when you tell them their snake oil is snake oil they provide a rationalization that in some way either you or the conditions were not right for their snake oil to work.

    There really is nothing to gain from these people. I recently read the work of the first century stoic Epictetus and its all there. In fact, he offers more nuggets of truth to pick from than the collection of these contemporary bullshitters offer all together.

    As well, read the work of Marcus Aurelius. It turns out that the character maligned in "Gladiator" was not him, but his son, Lucius Verus. Marcus also makes a valuable contribution to stoic thought in his collected writings "Meditations".

    Read the writings of truly great men who influenced the world. Know their thoughts and their aspirations and make them your own. Forget these irrelevant snake oil salesmen. They are just chaff.

    If you want to be really great explore a discipline to its horizon where the next step is into uncharted territory. Challenge the boundaries that have been erected out of ignorance as opposed to knowledge. Then you will do something humanity will benefit from.
  • In. Freakin. Credible. My hat, sir, is off to you. Touche.
  • Erik Lehmann
    The 4HWW is an opportunity for lifestyle design by one's own choice. Mr. Ferriss himself, confessed in an interview that the 4 hour part of the title was somewhat arbitrary. The point is not to work for works sake. The point is to earn for life's sake.

    I'm not sure if I believe that if we extend the metaphor exponentially, that there would be no one to actually do the work. We were once an industrial nation, and a service economy evolved into existence. Before that we were an agricultural society. Automation as a step was designed for this, but people were not liberated by this step, because they carried the sense of the protestant work ethic that reinforces diligence over balance and enjoyment for enjoyment's sake.

    The point is, that doers are allowed to be thinkers and thinkers are allowed to choose what they do or who does it in a way that creates synergies and reduces inefficiencies without guilt. There is no need to fill the time saved by efficiency with more work. Play is OK and why we make money!
  • I've read GTD and just started whizzing through 4HWW yesterday.

    This was a fun article, and the bias is obvious, but does none-the-less end up being somewhat balanced.

    The only thing is that reading 4HWW is like reading an infomercial. Ferriss makes a lot of incredible claims and spends many paragraphs telling you how awesome he is. Egotism is infectious and he mixes it so well with energetic optimism that it's not surprising to find many people hooked on his ideas. But I can't help but keep my guard up as I read through the book. It sounds so much like a con-man's pitch.

    We all just need to be critical when reviewing this kind of material. There's some good in GTD and 4HWW; we just need to cherry pick which ideas suit us best. In the end, neither is very valuable on it's own... it's doing that matters.
  • You hit it on the head, Damon.

    The 4DWW is only a book. GTD is only a book. 7HoHEP is only a book.

    Heck. The Bible, the Koran, the Talmud, the Eightfold Path, the Tao Te Ching, the Vedas, Das Kapital ARE ONLY BOOKS!

    Wow. Talk about a major epiphany.

    And the older these books get the less relevant they are because they are static as are their advocates, while our understanding of the universe is dynamic and growing.

    Become a Skeptic, it is a healthy state of mind and you'll find yourself able to live with the uncertainty of human knowledge.
  • Damon L.
    Ummm... WTF Grant? Chill dude. It's a book, it's only a book.

    I like dreaming that my life might be a certain way, but until that happens I have to make sure I pay the bills and provide for my family. Tim's book is inspiring to some degree, but really... If everyone in the world did what he is doing then we'd be a planet full of people wanting all the other people to do actual work. Craziness.
  • Grant, I couldn't have written it better! Indeed, "Siddhartha" is a great book. I also agree that we should build our own package of methods and techniques and find what is best for us. All these books about how to earn your first million or be successful should be ignored. They are just biographies. They say "My life is great. You should live the same way as I do and your life will be great too". Lies.
  • I highly recommend everyone taking the time to read "Siddhartha" by Herman Hess. I will concede that every technique can teach us to discipline ourselves in different ways, however discipline does not necessarily bring us any closer to personal enlightenment. We may follow religion, self-help, personal development, organizational techniques, the sciences and on and on, but following the gurus who found their own enlightenment through these disciplines will not necessarily enlighten you because personal enlightenment, as Taoism says, cannot be articulated by them to you. You have to ultimately understand yourself and find your own discipline. Not only build with, but extend others work.

    In my own blog I look at many disciplines for understanding systems. I read the works of many so called gurus and find more and more that they are all describing the same thing. I could take GTD and fit it in. I could take 4DWW and fit it in. What I describe is my best effort to articulate my understanding as I develop my personal discipline.

    What I get tired of is guru's who are "certain" or "guarantee" that their system will work for you. Every single person in this world is as unique as everyone else. That means that every single person encounters a personal exception in life that no other person will experience. You have to find your own solution to that exception as no one else will understand your exception or be able to design a solution for you. But when you discipline yourself to handle what is already understood and then take the next step to handle your own exception by yourself you will achieve personal enlightenment. No one can give that to you and no one can take it away from you. You can share it with others, but ultimately you are a fraud if you claim certainty that your enlightenment will handle the unique exception in anyone else's life.
  • Grant, I admire your determination to not take anything on "faith", and that kind of objectivity is often missing, especially when we "want" to believe in something. For example, I might desperately want to believe in the 4-Hour Workweek because I want to have more fulfillment while working much less. However that bias does not make what Ferriss is saying "true" or "correct". I shook my head at a number of things he wrote about, but I think there was some good stuff to consider in there, just like in GTD.

    To "reject the methods" outright seems rather harsh and extreme. There is nothing stopping you from testing the methods set out in both books yourself. I am sure you might find some things work for you and others do not. I don't think it is necessary for us to develop every single method, process and idea ourselves - in fact I find that rather inefficient. Surely we can make larger gains by building on the learning of others. For example, I accept the concept and application of addition and multiplication. I would hate to have to forgo their use until I developed number theory from scratch for myself!
  • Clay, to echo everyone else here--great job on your blog--you're pretty darn entertaining and it's great to see you contributing so well to this productivity space. Now onto the meat:

    I think there is a place for both systems, but it does require a lot of trimming...of both. The main lesson from GTD for me was to get the stuff out of my head and into a system I trust

    I think that that part was even a big part of Tim's workflow. For instance, he spent a few days trying to come up with his 80/20 or 95/5 in terms of what he wanted in his life. To do that he had to do some sort of mind-dump, figure out how he was spending his time, determine his responsibilities, etc. Then he could act upon it. The steps he took next were very different than David's (Tim was ELIMINATE AUTOMATE OUTSOURCE as opposed to PROCESS ACT REVIEW), but they required getting things out into the open. And, of course, in the process of eliminating, automating, and outsourcing, you still have to process stuff, act on it, and check up on it. GTD helps to get organized--to help you focus on the task at hand ("mind like water"). Tim is a natural, probably a genius, when it comes to discipline. Most people need a system to have that focus and clarity of what to do next. That's where GTD plays a role.

    Then of course there's the 4HWW. And I readily agree with you that finding ways to do what's the best and most exciting use of your time is what it's all about. Tim offers such great, tangible advice for that, and plenty of reasoning for why.

    So, I'll try not to go on and on here, I'm just suggesting that there's a need for some sort of organization and GTD can help with that. The 4HWW was so impactful for me because I had a system in place. Putting the two together has made my days so much more productive with a lot more time.

    Cheers.
  • Erik Lehmann
    Does anyone else find themselves reading only books they agree with, or books that agree with them? It seems as though this debate would be well aided by a Myers-Briggs assessment as a way to predict which set of concepts would be most appropriate for any individual.
  • I reject the methods, because I reject their premises. The reasoning is deductive instead of inductive. If I am going to do it myself I am going to observe, hypothesize, test and conclude. I am going to find my own enlightenment through my own experience.
  • Grant, the best thing is to take what is good for you from all these methods and create your own package.
  • I've attended a presentation on GTD and was immediately convinced that this was NOT the solution. I do not believe that the 7 Habits are the solution either. And Tim, he has his religion too.

    What stands out is the "certainty" of all of these techniques. As soon as someone declares certainty, the atheist in me gets its hackles up.

    What I am looking for is a process that admits that a majority of things in life have an inherent uncertainty. That sometimes considerable thought is the solution and sometimes a gut reaction is what is called for. That sometimes simplicity is the answer and sometimes complexity is the only way to the mountain top.

    If people would stop for a moment and accept the tug of war of certainty and uncertainty in their lives there would be considerably less snake oil sold in this world.
  • Clay Collins
    @Erik: I think that your gut's right. Their books might suggest that they have deep philosophical differences, but I'm sure none of it's personal. And both of their books have expanded the market for personal development products (for each other) without threatening the other's position. Thanks for stopping by and for contributing.

    --Clay
  • Erik Lehmann
    I have read more of 4HWW than GTD, but in keeping with the fusion theme, I would recommend, The Power of Focus, by Les Hewitt, Jack Canfield, and others. The authors solidify the concept that everything on one's To Do or Not To Do list is a choose to rather than a have to addition to one's commitments. What we allow to be added to our To Do list is our own choice, there is power in owning the decision to allow any commitment to invade our lists.

    Every author is selling something. If it does not offer unique perspective, it will not sell as many copies. This is the part that is all about marketing. There is a finite number of ways to repackage the same concept, before people catch on and stop spending money on relabeled Rich Dad, Poor Dad.

    I appreciate the comparison, but my gut says that both of these authors would celebrate and not debate their differences, since; their differences are what allow both of them to remain in the marketplace.

    Thank you for the platform,

    Erik
  • Just letting you know, I just subscribed to your great blog. I look forward to seeing more of your wisdom in the future. ;-)
  • Clay Collins
    @Monika: Thanks so much for these kinds words. I'm glad that you stopped by. Now I'm off to visit your blog :-).
  • Hi Clay,

    I've also traversed the Internet from Naomi's blog and have been positively surprised by your creativity and humor.

    Great post triple thumbs up!
  • Clay, I am amazed with all the little tricks you learnt when blogging. You have done a lot of study before starting this blog, ha? I liked this post a lot. I am big fan of Tim.
  • Clay Collins
    @Sean John: Thanks for the very interesting comment. I definately think there's room for integration, but I also don't think that outsourcing is the essential part of Tim's Book either. The part on outsourcing is 26 pages of a 300+ page book. There's a lot of other things in 4HWW and I do believe that some of it conflicts with parts of GTD. I think that largest philosophical difference between GTD and 4HWW is that Tim also advocates for selective ignorance and elimination, while David believes that we have to put all "open loops" and unfinished tasks into a system. Tim thinks we should "eliminate instead of organize," and "create not-to-do lists," while David believes that we should capture "all the things that need to get done--now, later, someday, big, little, or in between--into a logical system."

    Anyway, I do think that a fusion is possible in some areas. GTD, afterall, is a system while 4HWW is more of an approach to life. But I also think that there are some real differences. But my guess is that if someone implemented 4HWW to the extent that Tim has and truly has a four hour work week (but who really does, right?!), then their workflow would be so simplified and distilled to its necessary elements that GTD wouldn't be necessary (it would probably just be extra work). That's just my take.

    Please let me know if you write a book called "Getting Things Done in Four Hour Work Week." I'll be the first to buy it :-).
  • Sean John
    I just got through David's AudioBook today, and have been through Tim's book about 4 times now, and it's got me thinking -- Why can't I implement both systems?

    Instead of picking out the PROs and CONs of each system, can't I make both work for me?

    Essentially, Tim is saying 'outsource, outsource, outsource.'
    While Dave says, 'Organize your life.'

    Why not organize your TO-DO's, like Dave suggests, and further filter these into the 'Outsource' box, like what Tim preaches?

    Heck, if you tweak the system enough, you could possibly work 2 hour weeks, and teach both Tim and Dave a few things ;)
  • Clay,

    I have been to Zen to Done as well. I am still reading absorbing the material there. Thanks for the suggestions.

    Desika
  • Clay Collins
    @ ReddyK: Thanks for the encouragement. And I'm glad that you found it inspired, even if the article was more win/lose than my usual post.

    @ Stephen: Yeah, that title was actually the first one to come to mind. Too many years in academia will do it to you.

    @ Tina: Thanks so much for subscribing. I hope I'll make it up to you with worthwhile content.
  • Clay Collins
    @ JEMi: I love this comment and I can somehow envision my mental image of you doing this: *stands up for a round of applause. AND the encore*. Enlightening AND entertaining *is* being very JEMi of me (or anyone). I think you own the market on that.
  • Clay Collins
    @Hunter: It was really nice of Naomi to link to me. Despite the article, GTD does have some strong points and it gets you thinking about how to tweak the little things to get big results. The problem, from my POV, is that it focuses too much on the tweaking and neglects the bigger picture. Steven Covey and others are good for that.

    @Jonathan: Nice. And thanks for linking to my blog. Seriously.

    @Josh: Yeah, I'd rather just focus on one or two big tasks each day than a whole lot of little ones. I know that some people don't have the luxury, but I just don't have the wherewithal to stick to it. Perhaps that's a problem with me.

    @Rob in Denver: I like your numbers and wish I had come across them prior to writing the article. Thanks for giving the link.

    @Warrne: Yeah, the whole argument about making thing complex in order to simplify. I but some of the arguments but not all of them. Perhaps when many people talk about simplicity they're referring to is the feeling of simplicity?
  • Clay Collins
    @Dave: I'm glad you liked it despite your love of GTD. GTD was a good read and I'm glad I read it. I think too often we focus on higher level planning that we neglect the day-to-day details, and that is what GTD is for. I made a trip to an office supply store right after reading GTD and I'm glad that I did. It's too bad I didn't stick to the system longer.

    @Kelly: Yeah, to me 4HWW was more about validating the notion of lifestyle design than anything else. It's good to know that there are options, and that people have taken workable steps to create better (although sometimes unconventional) systems. Thanks for calling me out with this: "GTD is for keeping afloat when you
  • Clay Collins
    @Kurt: I'm really glad. Thanks for subscribing and for stopping by.
    @Torley: Good point. My hunch is that if they ever did meet in real life the outcome would be *slightly* less dramatic than this article.
    @Desika: Thanks for the complements on the format. 4HWW of course isn't perfect either, but there's lots of good ideas in there. It's not really a productivity system (for a simple productivity system I'd reccomend Zen to Done, which has been reviewed on this site).
  • I discovered this article via another blog. I am adding this to my feeds.
  • Barbara
    Everyone wins this round. The smackdown format was a terrific way to get details of the two approaches on the table. Now I know Ferriss is my new hero. I've been selectively ignoring tv news and newspapers for about 7 years now and my quality of life-o-meter has gone through the roof. Great piece!
  • I was waiting for an article like this to come along, and here it is!

    I wonder if the two have ever met in person?

    Great to see your blog grow, Clay!
  • I think we all know who won this round: Clay! K.O.!
  • Hey Clay,

    Very nicely written and a very entertaining read. I have read DA's GTD, but could not implement it fully. I felt it was just too much for me. I have heard about 4HWW, but haven't read it yet. I will get copy of it as soon as I can.

    -Desika
  • LOVE the smackdown.

    Both GTD and 4HWW have their place, and that's place is in a blended approach. Thanks for highlighting some of the points GTD culties sometimes gloss over ...

    (PS - I love GTD. Parts of it. The parts that work for me [as with anything else]).
  • Funny and super creative post, Clay. Personally I don't get the attraction of GTD. As a woman with kids, this is the story of my life anyway. I already fit a million things in, I don't need someone telling me how to fit more.

    I much prefer Tim's book about re-thinking the way you live your life. Most of what people spend their time doing is non-essential in the long run. Add to that the time you spend worrying, thinking the same repetitive self-defeating thoughts and one could argue too many people are wasting their life anyway.

    I know I wasn't put on this earth to be a super efficient productivity machine. I'll leave that to David Allen.

    Scored a digg and a stumble from me too.
    Kelly
  • I just got back on the GTD wagon and I am glad I did. It helped me to become organized in my personal life (not my job). Now I have a 10 hour workweek at the office and enough time for other duties - and my weekly review :-)

    Your article is pretty cool and creative, it inspires me to read the 4HWW now that I finished GTD once again. But I disagree with you, Clay, in one point:

    "GTD is for keeping afloat when you
  • Clay, I just found you through IttyBiz, and this is awesome! In addition to being very funny, it's a very helpful comparison. I've read 4HWW and Tim's blog, and I hear about GTD all the time but I never knew much about it. GTD doesn't sound like my cup of tea.
  • Just got done reading this article. Great points overall. I tried to pick up David Allen's GTD and couldn't get past the cover. It just seemed so middle-age cubicle hell. I want something that motivates me and makes me feel empowered, and stresses whether your productivity is important or not. Thanks for the great article man. By the way, I just linked you on my blog:

    http://jonathanmead.com - Authenticity, Clarity, Balance
  • Clay,

    I have to agree with both @Stephen and ReddyK -- what an incredibly original presentation, man!
  • caron
    great meta-style post and great analysis with healthy doses of deconstruction & skepticism, as said above.
  • Very entertaining comparison. :-)

    I think that I'm in agreement with your bias here. I prefer to eliminate tasks whenever possible. That's partly because I'm not that efficient at running through a whole bunch of tasks yet. So maybe I'll change my mind after figuring out a modified GTD system that works for me.
  • It's nice to know I am not alone.

    Although, I cast a healthy dose of skepticism toward Ferriss, too.

    Great read!
  • Very interesting comparison. I think my bias sways in the same way as yours. Honestly I think GTD is way too complicated a system to do what it is supposed to - Simplify.
  • *stands up for a round of applause. AND the encore*

    Wow - this was a highly entertaining read. Makes me want to go upstairs into my library to read my copy of Tim's 4HWW which, btw, I've been meaning to do but I have to get so many other things done.

    ...

    Enlightening AND entertaining? Very JEMi of you Clay :-P

    you got yourself and digg, a stumble and an email fwd.




    oh and - Tim won.
  • Clay,

    Aside from the useful content, the presentation of the material is inspired. I can see you are mastering the art of grabbing a reader's attention, and also mastering the means of soaring high in social media sites. Congratulations!
  • "A Comparative Explication of Two Seemingly Antithetical Approaches to Productivity"

    Ha ha ha. ROTFL!!
    That's the title I would need to use!
  • I found your blog on google and read a few of your other posts. I just added you to my Google News Reader. Keep up the good work. Look forward to reading more from you in the future.

    Tina Russell
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